Share my musings about God Wars Dungeon 2

The challenge


Whilst at first God Wars Dungeon 2 may seem like a simple update, looking at it a lot could go wrong. From the schedule and some maths based on the three teams, we can made a rough estimate that God Wars Dungeon 2 will be out around March at the latest.


The original God Wars Dungeon was created at a different time. Factions were less prominent with less written about them. Now there is more risk of making lore fails or making the situation come off as bad writing. The update is also being done by a team that doesn’t have a great history with handling the lore - Tuska was generally considered the worst world event, Halloween was criticised as grind and even fans of their quests place them below the output of the other teams.


The development team in charge, The Watch, also have no recent experience with lower to mid combat bosses and as seen by in November with the slayer monsters recent balancing of those monsters killed a lot of the potential the elite mobs had. We are also in a different era when the original God Wars Dungeon was released. Tier gaps have been filled and we have our daily routines. For God Wars Dungeon 2 to be something a large amount of people regularly do, it really has to give a strong incentive about why we should go there.


So we have a large project having to follow up one of the games biggest successes (that received several follow up updates to make it a very strong piece of content) with several pitfalls that will need a lot of thought and work to solve being done by a team with little recent experience of this type of content and never produced a well received lore update. This is the challenge that faces God Wars Dungeon 2.


Lore and Plot


God Wars Dungeon 2 needs a solid foundation for why it is happening and who is involved. From there, the update can be built upwards from a strong starting point giving it the best chances.


As said before, The Watch have not been great with story content. Tuska was considered the worst of the three world events and I’m sure everyone remembers all the post back at the time about the issues. Halloween was criticised for being grind and repetitive whilst the quests they produced highlight their lack of ability in the story field which is why they tend to play it safe with comedy. Generally I see people rate updates from The Watch between the middle to bottom of their list of the years updates.


I’m hoping the recently announced councils will help in this regard. Whilst the combat council will help with the balancing of monsters ect, hopefully the lore council will make sure no obvious mistakes are made and the dungeon has a story that works.


What is the most important in this regard is that The Watch tries and makes a dedicated effort to engage with the lore.There will be the temptation to just stick similar to the original and there will likely be the temptation to fall back to their comedic background. However when you aim for average, average is the highest you are going to hit and that is assuming everything goes perfectly. By attempting to make everything fantastic it allows for the chance it will work and become a perfect update plus even if it doesnt it earns a lot more goodwill seeing there has been effort put it that doing enough to be satisfactory would.


I would also encourage asking for help. Most people don't want to come to the forums to complain after an update. If you feel unconfident about an area, ask either the players or members of other teams so the best content is produced. It will only be the best if you try to make it the best. Don't leave it 80% good. Do the absolute best you can, ask for feedback, make changes, double check all you can ect.


Problems with the same


One of the biggest problems God Wars Dungeon faces is the temptation to just do a copy of the original God Wars Dungeon. This would be a fundamentally missed and wasted opportunity.


The God Wars Dungeon is popular. However it already exists. Making the exact same thing would be useless and the more similarities it has, the more people will compare it to the original and likely say how the original is better. Trying to repeat the same thing that was successful before but bigger and better will just make the content look bad by comparison.


Lets compare it to movies. Everyone loved the joker in the dark knight. So why didnt the sequel have a joker like villain if everyone reacted so positively to it? Because that would just have led to comparisons about how the previous instalment. God Wars Dungeon 2 has to stand on its own merits and be successful in its own right. Yes this might be scary and it may seem easier to fall back onto the old formula but it also offers the best chance this update has at being successful. A unique update is better than a poor copy of something better.


This is not to say throw away all that was learned with the original God Wars Dungeon. But it should be a spiritual successor rather than a literal one. Take all the successful things but add new ideas and stuff from other areas that is liked.


One of the biggest areas of temptation will be the factions. I have heard the team believe it must include at least one big faction or people wont be interested. That is absolutely untrue and ludicrous. Players voted this as the most wanted update of 2016 besides NTX without knowing any of the factions involved. It is simply untrue that a big faction is needed to get interest. Look at all other bossing updates, even look at the original god wars dungeon where bandos and armadyl were virtually unknown. This is a false impression that should be corrected immediately. God Wars Dungeon 2 already has hype without any mention of the factions involved. It does not need one of the big factions involved to be popular. The opposite is true. This is the perfect opportunity to give some of the smaller factions the spotlight as bossing is probably the biggest way to get attention. If anything, from people I’ve spoke with including some of the big factions will kill the hype as it just looks repetitive and like the update will not be original compared to the original God Wars Dungeon.




The original God Wars Dungeon was great. But so are other things. This update has already been voted for and has hype. Now is the time for new things - new features that will define this next era of PvM.


Mechanics, kill counts, creatures, bosses, the dungeon itself - this is a fantastic arena to try out new original ideas. We all know how the old dungeon works but this dungeon can be completely different.


Maybe the environment is now a factor. Who says only one skill is needed to open the doors to the boss rooms? Perhaps the location is a new place as well. There is also the assumption it is a physical dungeon - why not a volcano, rift, different dimension rect? Kill count doesn’t have to work the same. There’s no rule it has to be 40 and creatures of that faction. Some tougher mini boss creatures might even count for multiple kill count rect. There are lots of ideas out there and I’m sure you might have some. So why stick to the old ways, when people want to see this fresh ideas?


This is probably the biggest thing to happen to bossing since the original God Wars Dungeon. It has everyones interest. Now is the perfect chance to do new things. This could define combat for the next 10 plus years. We’ve seen whats come before. Now is the time to see something new, the perfect opportunity to enter the mainstream of the game.


Recent Updates


There have been updates since the original God Wars. Whilst it is a great time for originality, you also have a lot of information about other popular updates. These can be merged with this update to get the best results.


For example you know boss pets and titles are popular. The Dungeon can now be released with those already implimented. Perhaps a Voice of Seren like feature to liven the dungeon up? Maybe different spell books have different effects e.g using ancients alters the bosses attacks?


The big one is Invention. You know what the perks are. You can design the rewards and bosses with this in mind. Maybe a perk people wouldnt expect unlocked something different from the boss? A terrific opportunity for easter eggs and surprises.


This is not an update in isolation. You know the schedule and you know what has been popular. This knowledge should be used to make this update as good as it possibly can be.


Player Consultation


One of the reasons Elf City was so popular was that it was discussed so players could point out flaws and give feedback on the plans so changes could be made to help the content be the best it possibly can be. The same should happen here.


Of course certain information should be withheld - drop rates ect for reasons like the economy. But there is no reason not to share some of the information like factions ect. This allows for realistic expectations by the players and makes sure the content actually gives what is wanted.




To repeat the key parts of the thread


- The Watch should make a big effort to engage with the lore and plot


- It should not be just a repeat of the original God Wars Dungeon. Original ideas are needed and wanted.


- The idea it 'needs' big factions to play a role is ludicrous 


- It should take advantage of knowledge of the popular updates of recent years to be as good as it possibly can


- Players should be consulted on the project as frequently and as much as possible with feedback being addressed

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